communal anarchy.

[Dominic]

This conversation wasn't relevant to 'topic' - 'summer reunion', so I moved it to here.
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Grosvenor Road somehow paled after the Island,

Eel Pie and Grosvenor Rd. were linked but there is no real comparison. One was a six month psychedelic fantasy, that fizzled out, and the other was a practical attempt at real, domestic, free-communal living. G R didn't fizzle out, it was forced out. It lasted for four years but I feel it could have gone on longer and got stronger if it was allowed to continue. Eel Pie was inspiring and "far-out man" but a bit unreal and with no possibility of longevity.

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Eel Pie and Grosvenor Rd. were linked but there is no real comparison. One was a six month psychedelic fantasy, that fizzled out, and the other was a practical attempt at real, domestic, free-communal living.

I was an 'outsider', yet born and bred in Twickehham and I had many friends among those living both on the island and Grosvenor Road.

Dominic, I remember you very well and fondly too. I enjoyed talking with you and still remember the twinkle in your eye. So does Beanie.

From what I understood by talking to Peter Walter, who was one of the early idealistic artists living on Eel Pie and helping pay the rent to Mr Snapper, it was only when the numbers of interlopers and those less together people within the community made it impossible for them to continue to operate as the arts commune, paying its way, that they had envisaged, that they left and went elsewhere. Peter himself lived in the church hall behind the Barmy Arms after Eel Pie. I recall that Peter told me that twice Pete Townshend had bailed them out with the hotel's rent and the third time he'd refused.

The later island inhabitants, if they had not been reduced to the least salubrious of our species, been more organised and not burned all the floorboards during the cold winter, may have been able to survive there a little longer than the six months Dominic remembers.

I moved away from the area after Grosvenor Road had been going a couple of years or so. I have quite a lot of negative things to say about both venues and my manners will prevent me from saying very many of them in this forum as it would be unkind and probably unwelcome if I did so. However, I will say...

With a number of notable exceptions, and I count Dominic among these people, I was often regarded as an outside energy source to the free-living eco-system and would thus mostly be greeted with 'Hi man, got any money,...?' or 'Hi man, got any...'. It was always about them and their needs and little about the other person. It was so cool when others were giving to you, but almost nothing went the other way, be it material or spiritual, although I saw so much talent in so very many people. At times I could have knocked heads together with what wasn't achieved

Yeah there were the good times though

John

[Weed]

John, your mention of Lorna brought back memories... she and Seamus were two of the first people i got to know when i moved into the Richmond area in 1968

re comparing Eel Pie and Grosvenor... they both meant so many things to so many people that it's hard to generalise -- they also served different functions -- Eel Pie was one London's main 'crash pads' and people from all over the world (and in all sorts of states) would get directed there by BIT -- also the very first people to move in had very definite political motives... the aim was revolution! lol

...tho the original squatting of the place was hardly a revolutionary act, having been prompted by Arthur Chisnell, who indicated that owner Michael Snapper wouldn't be too upset about it -- of course they'd known each other for years -- before starting up the Jazz Club on Eel Pie in the '50s, Arthur had 'managed' Michael's Kingston junk shop

i remember rent for the hotel being collected fairly regularly for about 6 months -- i might even have done it myself a couple of times... until Big Frank, the epitome of trustworthyness, volunteered to take over the responsibility for it, and then one week he disappeared with the takings... never trust an (ex-)policeman haha -- anyway after that i think we were all worried he might have set a precedent, and no-one was ever again considered reliable enough to take on the role of rent collector -- not that Michael Snapper seemed overly concerned... i'm sure the loss of 20 quid a week wasn't a major worry for him... afer all it was hardly likely to reduce him to bankruptcy -- and more importantly he could no longer be held directly responsible for his hippy tenants lol

[Dominic]

John, - you flatterer! - I must have soon lost that twinkle. My memory is not good, and I'm ashamed and embarrassed to say that although yours and Beanie's names are familiar, I can't attach faces to them in my mind. Perhaps if you write more of your memories it will stimulate mine.

I presume Peter Walter is 'Artist Pete' as we knew him. I don't remember him living on 'the island' but he was a regular visitor. We were quite good friends at the time, I liked him. I remember he worked in an industrial model making studio in Richmond, where he modelled the landscaping around motorway intersections. Scratch and I worked there for a while, transporting huge sections of Iran to various storage lock-ups. They were being made for a 'pre-computer' style flight simulator for the American military. How times have changed, that was before the Iranian revolution.
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I lived on Eel Pie Island for over a year and watched it change. The six months I referred to,- when it was good / positive / spiritually sound,- was actually about eight or nine months, from about October 1969 to mid-summer 1970.

I arrived there in November 69 and stayed there until the end of 70. I escaped while there was still a staircase to walk down, from our refuge on the top floor. It's true that the building was being neglected and even abused but it was a semi derelict wreck to start with. A good proportion of the ground floor was collapsing due to dry-rot and there was never any proper kitchen facilities.

Even in the heady early days some doors were removed for firewood and replaced with old blankets. Although the justification might have been to break down barriers. There was even a rough hole dug in one wall to join two rooms on the first floor.

The early days were great. It was like a new kind of self styled family. A bit crazy, anarchic and tripped-out but it was peaceful and non-threatening. I loved it and felt very much at home, but then I was young, naive and spaced-out.

We were inspired with the idea of a free, non religious, non political, communal lifestyle and some of that idealism migrated to Grosvenor Road where it was made more real. It was a slightly different class of people than the Eel Pie originals who were quite pretentious in many ways but quite magical also.

I believe there was an attempt to appease the owner of the disused semi-derelict hotel on Eel Pie, in the early days, with a token rent but it was initially a squat. I'm not sure that much of the money collected for rent ever got to him. It was either used for other things or it was just ripped-off by the collectors.

I think if Pete Townsend ever gave any money, he gave it to individuals who were just scamming him. There were some people who had dropped-out from wealthier backgrounds that constantly had fund-raising (scrounging) on their minds.

I remember when a bunch of people befriended Townsend and he allowed them in his house to create some music but that was after the idea of paying rent was already abandoned, as I remember it. That friendship didn't last for long, I believe that privilege was abused.

As Weed said, everyone has their own view from their own angle. This is just from my scrambled memory.
http://www.eelpie.org/histdm.htm

[Weed]

I presume Peter Walter is 'Artist Pete' as we knew him. I don't remember him living on 'the island' but he was a regular visitor.

yes, i remember Artist Pete as well, and he didn't live on Eel Pie AFAIK but he did help squat the Petersham Road Hotel (which was in a far more dilapidated state than Eel Pie had been when first occupied), and i heard that much of the interior was used for firewood during the winter -- (NB this is the hotel some way down Petersham Road, and not the Richmond Bridge Hotel that was squatted about the same time and used as a battered wives hostel)

Even in the heady early days some doors were removed for firewood and replaced with old blankets.

NOOOOOOOOO!

in the early days, some doors were removed, but definitely not for firewood (honest!) -- true, a couple of the doors ended up being burnt on the campfire, but that was just cos it seemed more responsible than throwing them in the river lol

[Dominic]

I guess it was genuine then !? Those doors were removed as a physical demonstration of an 'open door policy'.

Although I guess 'policy' is the wrong word, as it was 'anarchy'.

yes, i remember Artist Pete as well, and he didn't live on Eel Pie AFAIK but he did help squat the Petersham Road Hotel * and i heard that much of the interior was used for firewood during the winter --

Is it possible that Pete's story / memory was a bit mixed-up between the two squatted hotels?

There was definitely more respect for the physical structure in Grosvenor Road. Although there might have been some neglect and even abuse. When we were forced out after four years, the houses that were still standing were still in a good condition for living in. In some cases they were improved since they were first squatted, as the owners / developers - Bovis would smash all the toilets and wash-basins (and other things), to prevent people living in them, before boarding them up.

We scavenged from other condemned houses in the area to improve the ones we lived in. I guess that's a kind of anarchy.

[Weed]

published today (Thursday 8th October)

"Eel Pie Island" by Dan Van der Vat & Michele Whitby
(Frances Lincoln, 2009)

covering the history of the island from the Stone Age to the present -- lavishly illustrated -- lots of wonderful pics, specially of the hotel, and the late 50s to early 70s period (jazz club, early rhythm & blues, commune), and of course the island itself in all its beauty -- includes quotes by Dom and myself

available from Amazon - http://tinyurl.com/ycnauem
(ignore the 'pre-order' status - they're already shipping it)

[Dominic]

includes quotes by Dom and myself

I have been told that it contains a double page spread of my painting. A portion of which is on the cover.

It was summer 1970. I was 19. I painted it, from life, in one sitting of about 12 hours. I didn't move from my position until it was finished and then it was already sold, I never saw it again after that day until now.

I still haven't seen the whole of it in detail. Only a very small version on the Eel Pie website
http://www.eelpie.org/index.htm

[Weed]

I have been told that it contains a double page spread of my painting. A portion of which is on the cover...

there is indeed a double page spread in the book, measuring 19"x11" (49cms x 27cms) -- however it's not the whole pic, just the left hand 2/3rds of it (missing out the big tree on the right)

if Michele at Par-ici is doing prints of the whole picture then i guess she'll probably send you one... but i assume she'll not release the digital file, so maybe you'll be willing to scan it in (or photograph it) and then post it here? (and you could add a link back to Par-ici for anyone wanting to buy the print) -- always presuming Par-ici don't object to 'their' print being put online lol

i wonder if the owner of the painting (if it still exists) will emerge once the prints start circulating?

[Joviale]

i'm so jaleous, i turned up in richmond just after the commune had closed down!
Any way, i did a little google search and this is what i found:

http://tinyurl.com/yhh8jrf
Anybody familiar?

[Weed]

there's a 6 page article on Eel Pie's musical heritage in the October issue of Surrey Life

PS Chris 'Yak' has surfaced -

http://www.eelpie.org/histcy.htm